>>21555i know, and i didn't make myself clear. i don't like how CDE works. it feels clunky and inefficient to use. it's not nearly as bad as gnome, but that's not much of a statement. i appreciate the way CDE looks (it's very beautiful), and clearly it was designed according to at the time industry standards (also a good thing), but i still think it's bad. but ye, i know nscde is just an fvwm config with scripts that theme everything to be consistent. emwm is a modernized version of mwm. cde was based on mwm. when you think about emwm, imagine cde but with truetype fonts and no dock. you can install a dock if you want it. it's a more freeform solution